Episode #29: Should You Get the Flu Vaccine?

October 28, 2019

Show Notes:

Speaker 1: (00:00)
Hey everybody, what's going on? Dr Chad Woolner here and dr buddy Allen. And this is episode 29 of the health fundamentals podcast. And on today's episode we're going to be talking about the question should you get the flu vaccine? So let's get started.

Speaker 2: (00:13)
You're listening to the health fundamentals podcast. I'm dr Chad Woolner and I'm dr buddy Allen. And this show was about giving you the simple but powerful and cutting edge tools you need to change your health and your life. So sit back and enjoy the show as we show you the path to your best life down to a science.

Speaker 1: (00:33)
So, Hey everybody, hope you guys are having an awesome day today. We have a really interesting, uh, and very, uh, heated or I guess controversial topic that, uh, is fully loaded with all sorts of different arguments, both for and against. We're talking about the flu vaccine and whether or not people should get the flu vaccine. So where do we even begin when it comes to the flu vaccine? I mean, I guess people in general, when we talk about vaccines, uh, immediately what you find are very visceral reactions, very visceral reactions in two polar different camps you've got on one side, uh, the very staunch pro vaccine camp, uh, where no matter what you say or no matter what you do, vaccines are the way to go. Vaccines can do no wrong, you have to get vaccinated. And then on the other end of the camp, you've got the complete opposite, what people would consider the anti-vaxxer camp where it's you can't get you, you don't get vaccines.

Speaker 1: (01:37)
Uh, there's nothing good that can ever come from vaccines. Vaccines are full of toxins and all sorts of other things. Um, and I, I certainly have an opinion on this, on this matter. I know you do as well. Um, but I think the overarching kind of theme that we want to present here, uh, if for no other reason than we want people to listen to this episode with an open mind. And I feel like if you, if you present anything one way or any of the other, you have so many people because like you said, that visceral reaction that they will be immediately dismissive. Oh, you bet. Of the things that you share without actually listening critically. And I think that's one of the great tragedies, um, or things that is tremendously lacking, uh, in today's day and age is an inability to engage in thoughtful discussion, discussion and, and in debate that engage us critical thinking.

Speaker 1: (02:38)
You know, um, there was a professor, not a professor who was, he was, uh, he was a priest that spoke at BYU. Oh yeah. Years ago. And, or not, not years ago, I think it was just like a year ago. And he said something really interesting. He said, um, in today's day and age, he said, it's not that we need to less, we need to disagree better is what he said. And I think that was so wise and so profound when it comes to the vaccine debate. That's what we'll call it. And obviously we'll, we'll hone in and talk specifically about the flu vaccine. But I think it's one of those things that we're talking about here that can be applied. It's not that we need to disagree less about these things. We need to disagree better. We need to look at the information. We need to not allow our own inherent biases to cloud a judgment because one way or another, um, we're talking about pretty significant implications when it comes to the choices that we make.

Speaker 1: (03:39)
You bet. And so, uh, for good or for bad, you know, and so, um, in terms of the flu vaccine, you know, the, the interesting thing that I would say, and perhaps this is, uh, where we can start, let me pull this up over here. Um, it seems to me, and you tell me your, your opinion, dr Ellen, but it seems that there is an ever-growing, um, push to vaccinate. And especially, especially with the flu vaccine, it's becoming more and more of a, um, standard, um, kind of approach to this time of year. You know, it's, and, and it's interesting because we, we refer to this time of year as what, as the flu season. Right? And the reality of it is, is when you just look at common sense would tell you there's, there's nothing different about our immune systems this time of year. Our immune systems work the same.

Speaker 1: (04:40)
Barring the fact that we have potential additional stress that's placed on our bodies this time of year for a variety of factors. Number one, come holiday seasons, we tend to not eat as well. That's a huge part. We can't, we can't dismiss that. Number two, what else changes this time of year? Short days, short days, so less sunlight. Uh, depending upon where you live, um, far more cloud coverage, which again decreases, uh, colder temperatures. So even if there is sunlight, most people are indoors or covered up or covered. Yeah, exactly. Or covered up. Yeah, exactly. So you're not getting the amount of sun exposure that you would get. Um, the fact that you're, you're more, uh, congregated indoors means you're more susceptible to other people's germs. Um, you know, so, so I mean really what you're talking about is almost like this perfect storm as to why, you know, uh, and some people might think that what we're talking about here is just semantics, but I think it, it matters in the sense that semantics, right, right, right.

Speaker 1: (05:48)
Exactly. And so, so at the end of the day we have to look at why does it seem like, or why is it that there is a greater prevalence of, of cold and flu viruses that are, that are being spread this time of year. And I think those are some very easy to see reasons as to perhaps why there is an increased prevalence of these, these sorts of things. The flu, the flu virus doesn't just wake up because it hits October, November, December, January. It's like it's dormant during the summer and it only comes alive in the winter. Right. It's always floating out there. Right, exactly. And, and so, so that, that's kind of an interesting thing. I think if we look at it in terms of in plain sight, environmental factors are the things that we do or don't do. Make a difference into it as to our body's capability of taking care of itself that, you know, in terms of our immune response.

Speaker 1: (06:44)
And so, uh, we'll, we'll talk about this kind of moving forward in just a minute here, but, um, there is significant research showing our levels of vitamin D play a huge role in our body's overall immune response, number one, but then number two, more specifically our body's immune response with regard to, uh, the flu, our body's ability to fight off or to prevent, um, contracting the flu virus. And so, um, vitamin D is very closely linked as we know, to sunlight exposure. Um, and obviously dietary factors as well, you know, and so, um, so in, in terms of the flu vaccine, um, you know, when it comes to that decision, um, we realize again that this can be a very emotionally charged, kind of very sensitive issue, whether or not to vaccinate or to vaccinate. Um, and, and primarily because typically the emotions come from the fact that we're dealing with not just our own personal health, but the health of loved ones, especially children.

Speaker 1: (07:54)
Right. In terms of our, in terms of the health of our children, I don't think any parent out there any reasonable good parent out there, uh, wants their children to, I think most reasonable people want their kids to be happy and healthy. Right? Uh, and so it's no wonder that we want to make these decisions, uh, and we want to be right about these decisions. We do not want to be wrong about these decisions. The problem that we see when it comes to the flu vaccine is that it seems like people, far too many people or most people are making decisions based off of incomplete information. Absolutely. Whether it's deliberate or not deliberate, people need to understand that there is a bigger picture here that they need to be seeing prior to the decisions that are made as to whether or not they choose to, to vaccinate when it comes to the flu vaccine.

Speaker 1: (08:49)
You know, when you talk about this, I've been kind of thinking because there are, there's such a polar polar extremes on both ends of pro or, or anti vaccination in general. It's almost like people have dug their heels in so deep because they don't want to lose. It's like a, it's like a competition. If I, if I say that, Oh, Oh, I guess it's okay. If you don't, then I'm conceding that are, I'm losing. You don't want to lose any grant. It's not, it's not a losing art. You know what I mean? It's like I either I have to win. And so if people dig their heels in and they don't wanna they don't want to believe that, well, maybe there is a different way or a different, uh, possibility, you know? Right. One way or the other. Right. Exactly. So when we look at [inaudible] and one of the great ironies that we see today is that never before have we ever had more information accessible at our fingertips.

Speaker 1: (09:44)
And yet it is, seems to be increasingly difficult to be able to sift through all of that information to find confusing, to find trustworthy sources, to be able to give us fair, balanced, accurate information. Uh, perhaps one of the best and most, most reputable sources when it comes to scientific information. And, or conclusive, you know, kind of answers as to, should I do this, should I not do this? Is this safe, is this effective? Is this ineffective? Uh, is this a, is this a group called the Cochrane review? And basically the, I didn't know, uh, their, their history or anything, but they're actually a, um, a nonprofit from, uh, it says Cochrane is a British charity formed to organize medical research findings so as to facilitate evidence-based choices about health interventions faced by health professionals, patients and policy makers. So their whole point is they look at as a group, they look at all of the evidence and then they, they, they analyze the evidence, they kind of systemize what it says, and then they synthesize all of this evidence to basically make conclusive statements as to whether or not the evidence shows something is effective or ineffective or, or, or whatnot.

Speaker 1: (11:04)
And, you know, suffice it to say, if you were to look at the Cochrane reviews regarding their stance on flu vaccinations, it's pretty loud and clear that, that they say the evidence is pretty weak. Um, they say that if there is any effectiveness from the flu vaccinations, it's very, very low. Um, and, and when you look at straight from even like the CDC and what they say about the flu vaccine, most of the experts agree that the effectiveness of the flu vaccination is typically 40 to 60% in terms of the likelihood of it helping you. And so when I hear that, when I hear 40 to 60%, I think flipping the coin yup. Is what I think. And part of the challenge is that assuming that you've got a, the the correct, uh, strain dialed in, we'll talk about that in a second. It's 40 to 60% effective assuming that there's a match.

Speaker 1: (12:03)
The problem is that there are a variety of different flu strains that come about each year and they constantly are changing and mutating and whatnot. And so, um, [inaudible] you look at their own, look at their own guidelines and what they'll tell you straight up is that this is our best guest this year based off of the, you know, epidemiological studies that we've done forecasting, et cetera, et cetera. I don't know the whole process as to how they do that, but their, their whole point is, is that educated guesses, educated. Yeah, absolutely. Um, there are basically, when you look at it, there's roughly, I think about 144 different potential strains based off of different combinations and, uh, different types. Um, there, there are three kind of general types, a, B and C, a a is the most common, but then even within that, there are roughly about 144 different combinations of different strains.

Speaker 1: (12:55)
And so they say typically that the flu vaccine, uh, covers four, I think four of those different strains. And so you're talking about 3%, roughly 3%, uh, of the possible, the possible strains that, that you're going to be vaccinating against or for, um, yeah, Mexico city, you know, to, to help protect you. And, and the interesting thing that I find is that in light of that, in light of the fact that it's so few, your odds are, you know, not great. They still highly it. And, and I hear comparisons, I see this amongst experts where they make these analogies or comparisons, like it's getting a vaccine and flu vaccination is like wearing your seatbelt, where it's like, that's such a poor comparison, you know, cause because studies have shown loud and clear in terms of seatbelt safety. So that's a really weak analogy, a very poor comparison there.

Speaker 1: (13:52)
Um, so, so in terms of, you know, you're, you're kind of shooting or throwing a dart at a dartboard and hoping that it hits number one, but then also in terms of the effectiveness there, they're roughly saying 40 to 60% effective. So that's kind of one side of it. We're talking about. Does it even work? You know, and again, the evidence says if it works, it's not great. It's not, it's not an, you know, and, and, and the problem number one that we see is that by the powers that be, uh, they paint this picture as though it's, it's a done deal. You know, this is the way to protect yourself against the flu. And, and you don't hear a whole lot in terms of them saying, you know, that, that it's not terribly effective. Um, well they even, so my wife is a nurse and as you know, being a nurse, she's required to get the flu shot each year and um, for, you know, just cause that's policy.

Speaker 3: (14:52)
However, it's one of those things that, um, uh, even when even in years past, in fact I want, it was a year or maybe two ago where they said, well, we kind of, we know we kind of missed the Mark on the, the, the strain this year, but we still recommend everybody get the vaccine. Yeah. So even when they know they've pretty much missed it, they still, you know, it's the, the powers that be just say, you know, yeah, you should still get it. So, but Y you know that, that's kinda the big w what for if we know w and I guess this kinda comes down to, we were talking, this whole topic came up, cause I read had read something on social media and it was there, there were, there were flaws in the argument for pro, you know, this was a health professional.

Speaker 3: (15:38)
And the whole article was, you know, what, flu shots do not cause the flu. And she kinda went on to say different things. And then she also stated, she says, and this was, I thought it was interesting. She says, you know, uh, you know, avocados are a healthy, healthy fruit, right? Right. And she says, however, in fact, if, I don't think anyone would argue with you that avocados are very healthy, but if I eat an avocado, she said, I get, I swell, I get, you know, I have a terrible reaction to it. So she says, but that doesn't mean avocados are unhealthy. And then that's, and then she moves onto something else. My, but, but wait, that undermines her entire, exactly. My whole, my whole thing that stood out to me was, it's true, they are incredibly healthy, but there are lots of really healthy things that people, people are deathly allergic to.

Speaker 3: (16:26)
Right. So peanuts, almonds, all kinds of different things there. Fish. Yeah. You know, and it's like they can be incredibly healthy and yet for some people they can be, they can have deathly allergic reactions. It can be terrible. And so part of what, you know, that's kind of what spurred our, our thoughts on even doing this podcast was, you know, what there is that we, we, uh, so many people just jump on the, Oh, well it's flu season, I guess I need my flu shots. What, you get the flu? And they're, they're doing that based upon an incomplete information. Yes. So be able to make an educated choice one way or the other. Yeah. And, and, and, and that's the, I guess that's the point that we're trying to get across here in all of this, is we're not trying to say don't get a flu vaccination. Uh, at the end of the day, that's your choice. If somebody wants to. And I just think the place where I'm coming from is if you make that choice based off of the best available evidence and you know, uh, the benefits versus the risks, uh, the potential benefits versus potential risks. And you do that in light of that more power to you. Great. But the problem is, is that most people I would argue are doing it, like you said, based off of incomplete, uh, and oftentimes inaccurate information. Um, this is straight from the Cochrane review. It said,

Speaker 1: (17:50)
uh, uh, N this is regarding, uh, vaccinating children and the elderly, um, which are the two greatest at risk and or the immunocompromised, you know, population. So when it comes to flu, a large scale, a systematic review of 51 studies published in the Cochrane database of syste systematic reviews in 2006 found no evidence that the flu vaccine is any more effective than a placebo in children under two. The studies involved 260,000 children age six to 23 months, uh, in, uh, 2008. Another Cochran review, again concluded little evidence is available that the flu vaccine is effective for children under the age of two. Even more. Disturbingly, the author stated it was surprising to find only one study of in vaccinated show, uh, vaccine in vacs, uh, or excuse me, inactivated vaccine in children under two years given current recommendations to vaccinate healthy children from six months old in the USA and Canada if immunization in children is to be recommended as a public health policy, large scale studies assessing important outcomes and directly comparing vaccine types are urgently required.

Speaker 1: (19:05)
And so that's concerning because what they're basically just saying they're in the Cochrane review is that we do not have the level of information and data available to make the conclusive statements that are so frequently made in the, from the, from the pro-vaccine camp. They make it sound as though, Oh, this is, this is just conclusive when it's not, it's anything but conclusive, you know, and, and I can appreciate, I really could appreciate if they came from a place of basically saying, look, based off of the best available evidence, we believe this is the best approach. But I don't think that's the statements that are being made. It is this, it is this uh, statement of like they treat, they treat it like gravity. Like it's just this given scientific law where it's not that at all. They treat it like there are no possible negative side effects that can come from it.

Speaker 1: (20:02)
Yeah. And we'll get to that in just a second. Yeah. So in terms of the uh, elderly, so we talked about children in 2010. Cochrane concluded that the available evidence is of poor quality and provides no guidance regarding the safety, efficacy or effectiveness of influence of vaccines for people aged 65 years or older. Uh, Cochran also reviewed whether or not vaccinating healthcare workers can help protect the elderly patients with whom they work. In conclusion, the authors stated that there is no evidence that vaccinating healthcare workers prevents influenza in elderly residents in longterm care facilities. So again, these are the, these are not fringe like blogs that were written by some random guy in his mom's basement to Cochrane review is the gold standard in terms of assessing and looking at scientific evidence here. And so please understand, like again, we're not, we're not trying to sound fringe or, or, or, um, you know, one side here, we're trying to present this in the most meaningful and sincere way we possibly can to help people understand, uh, again, what you choose, what you decide that is completely up to you.

Speaker 1: (21:15)
Um, we simply want to provide the, the evidence, we want to provide the information so that people can make informed decisions. And like you said, like in terms of the risks, these are not without risk as much as people want to present this, uh, this idea that, um, and, and, and, and I can also appreciate and understand to not vaccinate comes with inherent risks too. I get that. I understand that. To not vaccinate against the flu, I means you could, you could potentially get the flu. Absolutely. But, but again, in terms of weighing and determining risks versus benefits, um, Y you have that, you have that, uh, article there, one of the risks associated with the flu vaccine. And albeit I understand it's a low risk but risk nonetheless. Okay. Low risk does not mean no risk. Okay. Low risks just means that, that the likelihood is low. But nonetheless, they don't tell most people this, that they're one of several other potential complications or risks. Uh, one alone that is just frightening to me because I'm familiar with this cause I've known of people who have developed it, uh, is something referred to as Gian Baret syndrome. Um, you can look it up. It's spelled G, U. I. L. L. a, N. I. A. N. I. N. a. Dion Borei, B. A. R, R, E with like a apostrophe. Well, if you, if you type in that, it'll pop right up in the search and John Baret syndrome. Um, and, and as a complication associated with the flu vaccine

Speaker 3: (22:53)
is this, where's this from? And what does it say? So the, uh, this is the Mayo clinic right here that's talking about this, and it just says Gian barter. A syndrome is a rare disorder in which your body's immune system attacks your nerves, weakness and tingling in your extremities are usually the first symptoms. These symptoms can quickly spread eventually paralyzing your whole body. Yeah. All right. I mean it's, it can be very literally life threatening, like where you got to get to the hospital, it can happen quickly. And again, it's one of those things and they say it's rare, but they say, eh, you know, as many as 20,000 people a year. Yeah. You know, so it's, I mean, yeah, when you compare it to maybe hundreds of millions, that's not a hit, but that's still 20,000 people. Yeah. All right. It's there. It's a risk. And the risk is that this, this is the most common condition to follow the flu

Speaker 1: (23:46)
vaccination. Right. And that's straight from the journal of the American medical association. You look it up and straight from their own journals. They say that's the most common serious complication associated with flu vaccination. Yep. And so, and there are others as well. We don't need to dive into all of them, but just understand that there is risk that is there. And so to make this decision. Um, again, I think that's my, my thinking in all of this is I always cringe a little bit when I think that people are so, um, quick to do the flu vaccination with, with so little fought, you know, to that. And, and it's again, if you chose to do that in light of the potential benefits versus the potential risks and you knew that, Hey, that that's, that's your choice and you completely have the ability to do that.

Speaker 1: (24:38)
But again, I just think that most people aren't operating from that. And you bring up a really good point because right now there's massive debates when it comes to vaccinations in general. Um, you know, we're talking about, you know, the immunizations kids get for school in this, that the other California just passed laws that require, there is no, you, you cannot opt out of vaccinations. What for beliefs or anything else if you want to go to public school. And I would say for me the biggest concern, and to me it's, it's kind of terrifying as the loss of those liberties to be able to make choices for ourselves. Because again, these vaccines are presented, uh, both the, the flu vaccine and others, they present them as though they are infallible. Yes. That they, that there is nothing that could go wrong when the true reality is like, listen, most people do tolerate them just fine.

Speaker 1: (25:28)
Right. Most people do. Yeah. However, there are plenty of people and, and I would say a lot more than you, you realize that have major issues with like major, some and in some cases, death. Yeah. Right. People do. People do die from vaccinations. I don't care. You know, I mean, they're out there, plenty of them. And, and, and, and I guess that's my, my concern that I see that w w my eyes were first really open to this, not from the kind of what people would consider as the anti-vaccination community or camp. Um, that's not who, who had as much of an influence on kind of my perception and my take on this as much as what I saw from the pro camp. And what I meant by that is that, um, I started to grow increasingly concerned when I saw that, um, the minute you even question, you know, just looking for information, it was, it was, it's such a to act absolutely.

Speaker 1: (26:28)
It has such a dogmatic viewpoint almost to the point of like religious fervor to the way they look at vaccination. Like you do not dare question this. This is like sacred ground. It's blasphemy. And, and to me, that's concerning when I see that level of, of irrationality, um, regarding this, the, so that's what to a large extent has kind of shaped my opinions regarding this. Um, and so, so that's the concern. But I think you hit the nail on the head when you said, you know, at the end of the day, what we have to do is we have to stop and look at it for what it really is. We're not talking about the vaccine argument, be it Fluor other, it's not about vaccines, it's about personal Liberty. And that's the thing that's concerning to me is that the more we as, as a society, as people collectively abdicate our personal rights and outsource those basically to a government entity to make those choices for us.

Speaker 1: (27:26)
Uh, that's concerning. You know, we as individuals need to make the best informed decisions we can for our health and for the health of our families, for our children and for our loved ones. And, um, so, you know, when we talk about, so that's talking about, you know, like, okay, should I or should I not vaccinate against, uh, the flu? We're talking about that in terms of alternatives, there's a very clear alternative and in fact, when you look at the research, it's very solid, uh, in favor of a different approach. And we'll, we'll expand it even further beyond this. But when you look at, uh, vitamin D, you know, we kind of already talked a little bit about that. During this time of year, we get far less sunlight. We're a, our skin is far more covered up. And so vitamin D exposure is definitely limited when you look at [inaudible] and we'll give you a resource here going to vitamin D, council.org.

Speaker 1: (28:22)
If you just type it in, just know spaces, vitamin D, council.org. Uh, and if you look up, um, influenza, they have tons of research here, very good high level research showing loud and clear, increasing your doses of vitamin D is an extremely effective way to help you fight off not only influenza, but also just generally help bolster your immune system during this time of year when you could potentially be slightly compromised as a result of, again, not getting the sunlight that you need. Perhaps dietarily you're not eating as well. Uh, you know, were Halloween is just around the corner, followed by Thanksgiving, followed by Christmas and new year, you know, and so you're definitely not eating a few football games in between. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Football weekends. Um, so let's talk about the research here. Uh, when you look at vitamin D counsel, what they have to say, if you just go to a vitamin D council.org, um, you can look up, uh, influenza and, uh, there's a great article that they put together with a, a bunch of different studies, uh, showing several different things.

Speaker 1: (29:36)
Uh, number one, showing a handful of studies that, uh, vitamin D is helpful in preventing the flu. Vitamin D is helpful for, uh, improving one's response to the flu if they get the flu. Showing that those that had higher levels of vitamin D a were able to fight off the flu easier or have, uh, less, um, intense, uh, symptoms, symptoms associated with it. Um, there was, let's see here, um, helping, let's see here. Preventing the overall flu, um, treating and recovering from the flu. Let me just show, there was, this one was interesting. Uh, an experiment conducted in the United States gave elderly African American women 800 IUs of vitamin D per day for two years, then 2000 IUs per day for the third year. The group, uh, the control group was given a dummy pill. The researchers looked at how many times those women got influenced. So over the three year period and found that the vitamin D group had fewer influenza symptoms compared to the dummy pill group.

Speaker 1: (30:45)
Only one person in the vitamin D group contracted the influence. So while taking 2000 IUs per day compared to 30 cases of influenza or colds, for those taking the dummy pill, that dummy pill group had influenced the symptoms during the winter. While those who got the flu in the vitamin D group had symptoms that were independent of the season. And then they said an experiment evaluated the effects of vitamin D supplementation on influence risk in Japanese school children. The researchers gave the children either 1200 IUs of vitamin D per day for three months during the winter or a dummy pill. They found that more children in the dummy pill group got influenced a than other children in the vitamin D group. Uh, there was a preventative effect of 1200 IUs per day on the children that were getting influenza, uh, a so they concluded, uh, that it can help protect children against the seasonal influence.

Speaker 1: (31:38)
At a, um, there was a study conducted in 2011 looked at vitamin D levels and upper respite and respiratory infections like influenza in a large group of British adults. The researchers found that, um, four nanograms per milliliter, which I'm not sure the, their, their, um, vitamin D levels in the body, there was a 7% lower chance of developing influenza. Uh, there was a seasonal pattern of influenza, which was the same as the seasonal pattern of vitamin D levels. Again, you know, this is, it just goes to show that it seems very common sense that what we're dealing with is not necessarily, like we said from the beginning of flu season, but rather a pattern. Uh, and, and I don't even necessarily think it's linked to vitamin D itself per say, but rather other factors associated with seasonal changes that our bodies, um, immune systems are not as, um, uh, afforded to fight against battling.

Speaker 1: (32:38)
Yeah, absolutely. You know? Um, and so I think in, in all of this, um, we're not just talking about some magic bullet here being vitamin D, but rather I think the overall message is that we need to be more conscientious during this time of year to be doing those things that we know for certain will help our immune system. You said something that, you know, bringing up magic bullets. Yeah. People I believe, look at immunizations, you know, against these things that some magic bullet. I tend to make everything better and yeah, the reality is that we have to, we have to take it upon ourselves to make sure we have a fighting chance about fighting off any kind of sickness, not just influenza. I mean, influenza is one of a million different things that you could contract. Right. Um, and so the reality is we just have to, um, you know, like you said, a good, healthy diet, good sleep, good exercise, do the things that washing your hands hydrating properly, you know.

Speaker 1: (33:39)
Uh, the interesting thing too, we, we being chiropractors, uh, when you look at the research, there's some pretty solid evidence suggesting that chiropractic can help with immune response, can help improve the, the immune response overall. So taking care of, and, and, and I'll even expand that further for people who might roll their eyes at that. Um, I would say taking care of your frame, you know, that, that there is a definite connection to how you take care of your physical frame and the impact that that can have on, uh, immune function. You know, we can take that even further by saying, making sure you're getting adequate exercise in addition to your adequate rest and hydration. So some of these simple things, um, that individually may not have a massive influence, but it's almost like a, it's almost like a scorecard. You know what I mean?

Speaker 1: (34:28)
Like, if you can view this time of year as like a scorecard where you say, okay, here's my daily checkbox of things that I'm going to be doing. I'm gonna make sure that a, during this 24 hour period, I got adequate rest. I got adequate hydration. I got adequate levels of vitamin D, whether that's supplemental or trying to get some sun exposure. Uh, I got adequate nutrition, making sure I, uh, you know, dietarily was doing the things that I needed to fortify my body and my health, um, made sure that I, I got adequate rest in meditation and got adequate. Um, you know, the, the, the things collectively that we know we need to do. I'm washing my hands regularly, you know, all these things. Um, but just making sure that were a little bit more vigilant about it during this time of year. And I think that that will go, um, I think the evidence is clear that that will go a lot further than any vaccination will ever go.

Speaker 1: (35:26)
You know, and again, this isn't to say that for those who make that decision to vaccinate, um, that is completely your decision, you know, and you can totally do that. Uh, I am of the opinion, I just don't see the benefits outweighing the risks and I think we're kind of in the same absolutely. Same camp. Yup. So, uh, and, and I think for those who are, and I think maybe there's a small population of people like your wife who are in the camp where they have to be vaccinated. There is no way around it and yet they don't want to be vaccinated. And I would say using the same wisdom I think will help offset the risks associated with the vaccination by making sure in conjunction with that you're getting adequate rest, adequate hydration, adequate vitamin D, all those same things will play a role in helping your body respond appropriately to a vaccination salient to everything that hits us.

Speaker 1: (36:21)
Because you know, I mean again, there's, there's 10,000 different things that we could become sick. It's a, it's going to be impossible to vaccinate for all sickness. I know there's certainly trying all the time it seems like, but you know, it's like it is impossible to vaccinate for every type of sickness out there. Yeah. And without even getting into the whole debate of efficacy or right risks or anything like that. But you know, the, the best thing you can do is to, you know, help, help your body be as resilient as possible, um, to whatever you get confronted with. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So bottom line here, uh, should you vaccinate, uh, against the flu? Should you get the flu vaccine? Uh, again, I think the bottom line is knowing the benefits versus the risk, knowing more of the complete story. Um, not just buying into a lot of the propaganda that you hear, uh, that, that, uh, that flu vaccines are a magic bullet.

Speaker 1: (37:16)
Yes. Or that they are without risk. Um, those two things people need to understand. Number one, they're not a magic bullet. Number two, they don't come without risk. Um, but number three, uh, it is a personal decision. You know, when you look at all of the evidence available, um, I would argue that the vast majority of people out there want to make the right decision, especially when it comes to their health and the health of the ones that they love. And so I think sometimes it can be really challenging when you add on top of all of those other inherent challenges, feelings of judgment from others as to the decisions that you make, you know, the criticisms and the judgments. And that's the last thing in the world I think either of us want to do is put on people that extra burden of feeling like there's one more finger pointing on one way or the other.

Speaker 1: (38:02)
Just understand, uh, that the purpose of this episode, specifically of the podcast as well as the overall podcast is to give more tools to people to be able to make better decisions regarding their health. Uh, maybe sifting through a lot of the information that's out there and making things a little bit more clear. Um, so that you can make better decisions for yourself personally and for your own family. So hopefully this has been helpful. Anything else you want to add to this episode? Uh, no. You know, it's just, it really is so very important with all the information we do have available to us to make sure whenever,

Speaker 3: (38:36)
you know, when we'd read into anything, we should always read in with, uh, uh, you know, like what is this, you know what I mean? An open mind. Right, right. Cause if we go into any kind of, um, research looking for one outcome or the other guests, what you'll find, you'll find research to support whichever would last that you want. Classic confirmation bias. That's it. So you need to look at information with an open mind and say, you know, what are the pros? What are the cons, what are the risks, what are the benefits, what you know, like, and, and do they make sense to me? And for one, they may and for another they may not. Yeah. You know, so, but the, the, the scariest thing I think is in our culture, um, there seems to be a lot of the, again, the shaming you like if you don't do it like ever, someone's going to think you're a big jerk or some insensitive a hole for not, you know, cause someone else who can't do it or whatever that is, you know, and it's like, that's not true.

Speaker 3: (39:34)
You know, none of that stuff is true. Those are all tactics. So don't ever feel pressured one way or the other. Yeah, absolutely. Making choices on good information. Yeah, absolutely. Best available information that's out there and there is, there's good information that's out there. Uh, if you're willing to take a few minutes to kind of sift through some of it and think critically like you said. So anyways, hopefully this has been helpful and valuable for you guys, uh, either watching or listening to this and, uh, we're looking forward to sharing a lot more, uh, information with you on the next episode. Talk to you later guys.

Speaker 2: (40:06)
Thanks for listening to the health fundamentals podcast. Be sure to subscribe so that you stay in the loop and in the note with all of the cutting edge health information that we share, if you know other people that could benefit from this information, please share it with them as well. Also, be sure to give us a review. These really help us to ultimately help more people. Last but not least, if you have questions that you want answered live on the show, or if you have ideas for topics that you would like us to cover, please shoot us an email and let us know at info@thehealthfundamentals.com.

MJ Manlunas
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